Daewoo DF-7150 and Bush DVHRS02 DVD Recorder/VCRs
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Hi, I currently have a Bush dvhrs02 (or dvrhs02) and am having many problems with it. I originally bought a Daewoo df-7150 and returned it because of problems with the timer and disc editing. Imagine my surprise when I bought the Bush unit instead and found it used the same software and had the same problems as the Daewoo.
This gets rather complicated so please bear with me. Ill list the problems I have with the Bush unit and if I also found them on the Daewoo I will mark it so. (I expect all the problems actually occur on the Daewoo too but I did not keep the Daewoo long therefore did not encounter some of the problems found on the Bush machine.
1. Timer recording 1 (Daewoo too) If you program a recording which crosses midnight the following problem occurs.
The recording will start, a blank black screen is recorded for 4 seconds and then the recording stops. This regardless of the length of the programmed recording. If the recorder has been put into standby then this happens at least 90% of the time. If the recorder is in normal "on" mode then this happens rarely but it does still occur. Bizzarely this only seems to happen if the recording crosses midnight. The discs were not full and there was plenty room for the timed recordings.
2. Timer Recording 2 (Daewoo too) a few times on a timer recording (again crossing midnight) the dvd tray has been ejected from the machine and no recording made at all. I've not been able to reproduce this by fiddling with the clock settings etc. so I don't know at what point the tray has been ejected. Again the disc was not full and there was plenty room for the timed recording.
3. Disc edit 1 (Daewoo too) Probably about 60% of the time if you change the image used for a title on the disc the machine will hang. You have to switch off the power at the wall and back on to reset. If this happens the edit is not made.
4. Disc Edit 2 splitting a title sometimes also causes the machine to hang and the machine needs to be reset as above. If this happens the edit is not made.
5. General recording 1 On one DVDRW I had already recorded about six times and there were two recordings left on it ( having deleted the others). The next recording I made seemed to work and the menu title menu showed the new recording with its thumbnail but it refused to play it. I tried another recording and it was the same. I noticed that the disc was now showing as incompatible with other DVD players so I tried the "Make Compatible " option. I left it running for over an hour before I decided it wasn't going to get anywhere. ...another power reset. I tried the make compatible again with the same result.
I looked at this disc on my PC and found that the directory had double entries for each VOB file and the total added up to 7 Gigabytes - not bad for a 4.3 gig disk. Obviously the recorder had screwed up the file system. However the recordings that wouldn't play on the recorder did actually play as individual VOB files on the PC.
5. General recording 2 (Daewoo too) Occasionally after recording something, when you go to the title menu for playback the screen is totally black. and nothing plays. However this is usually fixed by making another recording and all the recordings re-appear.
I've tried several DVDRW disc brands on the recorder and all show these symptoms. ( Ricoh, Imation and PCline)
Most of these faults I'm sure are bugs in the firmware which the Bush and Daewoo share. It really makes me angry that manufacturers don't seem to test equipment properly these days, often relying on consumers to find faults and then produce firmware updates ( if we are lucky) After all this time can they not get a timer to work properly?
I'd really like to know if others have had these problems with these machines.
I've sent an email today to Bush but don't hold out much hope of a constructive ( if any) answer.
This gets rather complicated so please bear with me. Ill list the problems I have with the Bush unit and if I also found them on the Daewoo I will mark it so. (I expect all the problems actually occur on the Daewoo too but I did not keep the Daewoo long therefore did not encounter some of the problems found on the Bush machine.
1. Timer recording 1 (Daewoo too) If you program a recording which crosses midnight the following problem occurs.
The recording will start, a blank black screen is recorded for 4 seconds and then the recording stops. This regardless of the length of the programmed recording. If the recorder has been put into standby then this happens at least 90% of the time. If the recorder is in normal "on" mode then this happens rarely but it does still occur. Bizzarely this only seems to happen if the recording crosses midnight. The discs were not full and there was plenty room for the timed recordings.
2. Timer Recording 2 (Daewoo too) a few times on a timer recording (again crossing midnight) the dvd tray has been ejected from the machine and no recording made at all. I've not been able to reproduce this by fiddling with the clock settings etc. so I don't know at what point the tray has been ejected. Again the disc was not full and there was plenty room for the timed recording.
3. Disc edit 1 (Daewoo too) Probably about 60% of the time if you change the image used for a title on the disc the machine will hang. You have to switch off the power at the wall and back on to reset. If this happens the edit is not made.
4. Disc Edit 2 splitting a title sometimes also causes the machine to hang and the machine needs to be reset as above. If this happens the edit is not made.
5. General recording 1 On one DVDRW I had already recorded about six times and there were two recordings left on it ( having deleted the others). The next recording I made seemed to work and the menu title menu showed the new recording with its thumbnail but it refused to play it. I tried another recording and it was the same. I noticed that the disc was now showing as incompatible with other DVD players so I tried the "Make Compatible " option. I left it running for over an hour before I decided it wasn't going to get anywhere. ...another power reset. I tried the make compatible again with the same result.
I looked at this disc on my PC and found that the directory had double entries for each VOB file and the total added up to 7 Gigabytes - not bad for a 4.3 gig disk. Obviously the recorder had screwed up the file system. However the recordings that wouldn't play on the recorder did actually play as individual VOB files on the PC.
5. General recording 2 (Daewoo too) Occasionally after recording something, when you go to the title menu for playback the screen is totally black. and nothing plays. However this is usually fixed by making another recording and all the recordings re-appear.
I've tried several DVDRW disc brands on the recorder and all show these symptoms. ( Ricoh, Imation and PCline)
Most of these faults I'm sure are bugs in the firmware which the Bush and Daewoo share. It really makes me angry that manufacturers don't seem to test equipment properly these days, often relying on consumers to find faults and then produce firmware updates ( if we are lucky) After all this time can they not get a timer to work properly?
I'd really like to know if others have had these problems with these machines.
I've sent an email today to Bush but don't hold out much hope of a constructive ( if any) answer.
0
Comments
I sent another yesterday.... still no reply!
Phoning is a waste of time and money as you are stuck in a lengthy queue. Derek.
Cheers Colin
There are Firmware upgrades available for both these models, which fix some/all of these faults. (I'll try to get a detailed list.)
The firmware files can be sent by email, but they would need burned onto a disk for insertion to the machines.
If anyone would like the upgrade, please email HERE naming your DVDR/VCR model, serial number, and current firmware version.
It still makes me fume that people should have to resort to scouring the internet and posting on forums to get home electronics equipment to work that should just work out of the box. The ordinary punter in the street doesn't know how to do that. It's common practice now for computer based equipment, which is bad enough but home Hi-Fi type equipment???
Sorry- rant over!!
PS - forgot to mention it was 11-30 to 00- 30 , i wonder if theres a connection.
The "over midnight" recording from standby problem still exists but the machine behaves slightly differently.
Before - the machine would come out of standby, try to record for four seconds ( with on screen graphics showing this) then shut down again. The resulting 4 second recording would be just a black screen.
Now- the machine does not come out of standby, the machine display shows the recording attempt for 4 seconds ( no animated graphics appear on the TV screen) then stops. The resulting recording is 4 seconds of real video.
Changing an index picture still crashes the machine most of the time. A few times this has left the disc displaying a black menu screen like the one I mentioned above. I had to do a couple of recordings to get a real menu back again.
There is also an odd message now when you do an auto setup. The message "Feature not supported" appears. But the setup still works OK.
I got another firmware update from pvruk as he suspected the first one may have been corrupted.
Bad News
The "over midnight" recording from standby problem still exists but the machine behaves slightly differently again. Now it comes out of slumber, immediately shows message saying it is updating the disc, the recording animation shows recording for 4 seconds then the machine goes back to sleep again. The Resultant recording is 4 seconds of real video. I have tried it about a dozen times and the result is always the same.
Worse News
Trying to delete a title now crashes the machine most of the time!!!!! I tried deleting some of the 4second recordings and they all crashed the machine. I tried a few other "ordinary" recordings and some crashed and some didn't.
The only good news is that I tried changing title thmbnails several times and none of them crashed the machine. This is not much consolation since it's at the expense of not being able to erase titles!!!!!
Do these people not have machines to test these changes on?
To test if the title erase crashing was definately new, I put the first firmware update back onto the machine.
I was then able to erase all the recordings with no crashing whatsoever. The crashing behaviour while updating the title thumbnail also returned. I haven't bothered re-testing the over midnight fault as that was a constant between the two updates.
They must know about these firmware issues!
Will I get a reply????????
If anything goes wrong again I shall just contact Argos and ask then to sort things out, their Head Office can be quite helpful.
I noticed today in Comet there are similar Combi's to the Bush, made by Sony and Panasonic...both cheaper!! Derek.
I've had a reply from Bush customer care who had this to say:
Please accept our apologies for the delay answering your query.
We may be able to supply you with a correcting disc for the problems you are experiencing. Please forward your address details and we will pass it on to the appropriate department.
Kind regards
Customer Services
Three weeks is probably not too bad for a reply these days. We'll just have to wait and see if any more comes of it.
If someone is having problems with these and does a search on the web then at least they will be able to find this thread.
The Disc upgrade screen comes up, I select ok, but then a screen comes
up almost straight away saying the
"update could not be completed, the
system can not restart"
I then have to unplug it because it's frozen.
Has anyone had any other problems with this?
By the way what update version is it? You didn't say if it came from pvruk or another source?
The firmware I had was meant to be build no. 2.5.2/G. I actually got two different versions of this - the first was thought to be corrupt. ( although it worked better than the second one)
The update is to version 2.6.8/G
Tried a few different CD's, with no joy.
I've found a source of the update to version 2.6.8/G on an ecoustics forum ( http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/111808.html ).
I've tried this update but unfortunately, though the update process went OK, it did not fix any of the problems.
I think it's time to give up and try to get my money back. This is beyond a joke really. Bush and Daewoo should be ashamed of themselves. ( Instead of course, they're laughing all the way to the bank)
I changed the firmware back to the second one that pvruk sent me. ( Ver. 2.5.2/G)
This time things looked a lot better. The edits, such as index picture and chapter changes, work well. They cause a crash only very occasionally. This was the case the last time I tried it.
BUT, whereas the last time I tried it just erasing titles crashed the machine about 90% of the time, THIS TIME erasing titles was OK. I don't understand it but what the heck? I am using exactly the same discs I used the last time and nothing else has changed. I've done at least 50 erases and they all worked OK..I've done probably about 100 chapter changes and index picture changes and only a couple of picture changes froze the machine.
The " over midnight" timer fault is still present but pvruk has told me that this is due to the Micom software which is a separate update if one becomes available.
I'm afraid I cannot comment on the problems people have been having with +R discs as I've not tried these yet. I may have a go with some soon if I decide to keep the machine after this minor breakthrough.
I have had a response from Bush. They sent me an upgrade file ( Ver. 2.5.2/G). This unfortunately was identical ( bit for bit) to the first file that PVRUK sent me. However I tried it again to give them a chance. It did not fix any of the problems, just as before. I've sent them an email telling them so and also giving them the details of the second file that PVRUK sent me. ( which does seem to fix most of the editing problems ). They also had this to say - quote
"The firmware update I sent earlier (2.5.2/G) should cure editing fix. If it doesn't please go to set up then information page and email me all the details on the screen (e.g. Main Build 2.5.2/G, Loader Version BDR-Z17G etc) so we can work out if there may be some incompatibility.
The other versions of firmware with higher numbers (I think 2.6.8/G, that have been mentioned ) only cure German language translation fixes so are not really relevant for UK customers.
regards
eT"
On the subject of +R discs I've tried a little editiing with them as well ( I've mostly been concerned with +RW) and they seem to behave qiute well too. The only thing is that after you finalise a disc the menu still says it is not finalised. However you cannot record on it any more and when I play it on another DVD player it works fine. I've done a fair bit of index picture and chapter changing on +R discs as well and all have worked OK. I have to say I've only finalised two +R discs so far so I can't say my experiments are exhaustive.
So far, I'd say the second file PVRUK sent me is the best hope around at the moment. Most of the editing works fairly well ( But not perfect). The timer faults have not been fixed at all though.
I think Bush and Daewoo should recall these machines and replace them with fully working models as soon as they get their acts together. I've said so in my reply to Bush but I'm certain it will fall on deaf ears.
I know it may seem a waste of time but everyone should email Bush at the following address to let them know how fed up we all are. ( customercare@albaplc.co.uk ) Address it to Eddy Tosney. He was the guy who got back to me.
Cheers
Colin
I haven't had another reply from Bush yet about the failure of their update to fix my machine yet.
It looks however, from the different experiences here and on the ecoustics forum , that there is not one single firmware upgrade that will fix the editing on all machines. It looks very like the upgrade has to be matched to the hardware ie there are different hardware builds that need different firmware.( or the tolerances on the hardware are so flaky that its pot luck if it works or not) If so, then we're all just banging our heads against a brick wall.
Bush - just get your finger out and replace all these machines with working ones!
http://www.daewooelectronics.co.uk/gb/products/av_dvd_combiplayer.htm
Firmware updates available for DF4150P and DF8150P-but only dated 5/2/05 and for a loading tray problem?
Is it worth keeping the new one? Has anyone had good results with this machine?
I would have taken mine back and bought a different brand, but as I lost the receipt, I didn't try. I have learnt to live within it's constraints, and I use my PC to edit and archive to DVD+Rs (which it reads OK!)
If I were in your position though, I would cut and run while I could!
I bought mine from Argos and returned it because it froze the replacement does all the things it's supposed to in the manual except change finalized into 'Yes' tho' if disc is finalised it is although not stated in the menu !!.
As it stops recording automatically if signal is bad it is actually quite good at tidying up anything I am copying and generally apart from occasionally not recognising odd disks I am happy with it ... I can cheat I format those it doesn't recognise on a PC and it usually changes its mind. So in summary for it's cost it was worth it .. Though as VHS dies and DVD Recorders become commonplace I have no doubt the technology & reliability will improve and price will reduce but so far it has allowed me to copy successfully my collection of videos with the resultant freeing up of shelf space for more books !!
Maybe I was/am just lucky but it caused me less frustration than my new PC
Good luck