Time to change my panasonic DSB-30?
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Hi
Have just had a problem that was similar to another member Yesterday.
Digibox locked up whilst I was looking for channels,
unplugged unit, waited a min and turned on again - would go to s/by then when I switch it to on screen would come on, but the next button pushed weather on remote or on box would cause a complete lockup!
Whilst seaching this forum for answers i left the box unplugged. went back a couple of hours later and now, hey presto, it works!
My questions are as follows:
1. Is this box on its way out? It must be over 3 years old now, and has generally served me really well.
2. If its time to look at a replacement what is best for following: Location: Cyprus,Limasol (just 12 miles outside)
Dish: 2.2m Prime focus (Yes 2.2m, actually a 1.8m will work out here but not for terrestrial channels) make unknown
LNB: MTI ap?8 C120 Flange
Transponder: 26, 12 207V (I get about 50% sigal strength 0% quality)
3: I primarily am looking for a normal Sky receiver, but make be intrested in sky+, is it possible to get a good sky+ box for my location and if so is it possible to use it with a single LNB input until I can get a multi port LNB? Appreciate comment on both types!
Have just had a problem that was similar to another member Yesterday.
Digibox locked up whilst I was looking for channels,
unplugged unit, waited a min and turned on again - would go to s/by then when I switch it to on screen would come on, but the next button pushed weather on remote or on box would cause a complete lockup!
Whilst seaching this forum for answers i left the box unplugged. went back a couple of hours later and now, hey presto, it works!
My questions are as follows:
1. Is this box on its way out? It must be over 3 years old now, and has generally served me really well.
2. If its time to look at a replacement what is best for following: Location: Cyprus,Limasol (just 12 miles outside)
Dish: 2.2m Prime focus (Yes 2.2m, actually a 1.8m will work out here but not for terrestrial channels) make unknown
LNB: MTI ap?8 C120 Flange
Transponder: 26, 12 207V (I get about 50% sigal strength 0% quality)
3: I primarily am looking for a normal Sky receiver, but make be intrested in sky+, is it possible to get a good sky+ box for my location and if so is it possible to use it with a single LNB input until I can get a multi port LNB? Appreciate comment on both types!
0
Comments
Your MTI LNB is fine but if you replace it get a twin- or quad-output Invacom 0.3dB.
See info at http://www.satcure.net/2d/
The Mk1 SKY+ uses the horrid ZIF tuners and probably won't be very good in Cyprus. I believe the mk2 (BSKYB3100) uses the same tuners as the BSKYB2600 so it may be fine. But keep it COOL! (See other threads about this).
http://www.quietpc.com/uk/vgamb.php
Here is a review (when used in a PC for it's intended purpose!):
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/zm-nb32jnorthbridgechipsetcooler.php
I did buy the Satcure heatsink kit first (and followed their instructions)but decided to fit the Zalman after comparing the two.
Thanks
Gavin
Many thanks for the interesting links.
Gary.
The only ways the heatsink can get rid of its heat is
1. by direct radiation to the metal cabinet. The cabinet gets hotter and radiates the heat away to its surroundings. The external air also takes heat away from the cabinet. This doesn't work too well with a plastic cabinet!
2. by airflow. Natural airflow is upwards, which means you need an air inlet at the bottom and an air outlet at the top (or a good compromise that approaches this ideal). Hot air can't travel sideways unless there's something to push it (a draught from a window or door, or from a fan).
So in the long term (several hours) a heatsink without a fan in a fully enclosed cabinet is bound to be far worse than one with a fan that pushes cooler air past it. It's impossible for it to be otherwise, just as it's impossible for a bucket to hold more water until some is emptied out.
This is not easy to grasp, and I expect arguments from the mentally challenged, but it's true. It's not difficult to prove it by taking measurements inside a PC case over a number of days.
Think of it another way. You have a hot water radiator (the "heatsink) in your living room and the heating pump (the "CPU") is permanently on, pumping hot water into it. The windows are open a fraction. The room gets hotter and hotter until an equilibrium is reached, whereby the slight cooling effect of the open windows and the heat escaping through walls, ceiling and window glass exactly matches the heat coming from the radiator.
Now imagine the radiator is four times as large. Is the room going to get hotter or cooler.
Well it's likely to get hotter because the radiator is now more efficient at radiating heat.
But, in the case of a satellite receiver this is bad news. The central heating pump (the CPU) is also in "the room" so it's going to get hotter, too!
So, in these circumstances, the only cure is to open the windows wider and or fit a fan to suck the hot air out of the room.
So, the point I'm making is that a bigger heatsink isn't necessarily much help if it's simply radiating heat into the cabinet where the CPU is. You really need a better airflow to get the heat out.
Well, on behalf of the "mentally challenged", I'll post a reply. :rolleyes:
The heatsink removes heat from the CPU using radiation via the thermal compound. The fins of the heatsink then dissipate the heat using convection as you now have a much larger surface area than that of the CPU itself. A TU-DSB30 digibox has air vents cut into the metal lid to allow the hot air to rise and exit the case.
Does fitting the heatsink increase air flow through the case? No
Does fitting the heatsink cool the digibox in general? No
The whole point of this exercise is to reduce the operating temperature of the CPU - which is the acknowledged fault.
By happy coincidence, humans also occupy the same living area as both digiboxes and as a rule, switch on the ceiling fans fitted when the temperature rises - which increases the airflow circulating in the room (and moving hot air upwards) far more than a small fan.
This does cool the digibox in general - though not really the issue here...
Thanks
Gavin
Sorry to hear of your problems.
Have you opened the box up ? I'm wondering if the minibox has a heatsink on the CPU ?
The Panasonic DSB30 has slots cut into the sides and top of the lid for cooling and the lid itself is made of very thin metal.
Where have you got your minibox located ? Is it on an open shelf or in a cabinet ? Is there lots of space around it for air to circulate ?
Does the sun shine on it at all ?
If the minibox doesn't have a heatsink, it may be worth considering fitting one but you would need to open the box up to see how much room there is available to fit one - I would be surprised if the Zalman one fitted as the case is a lot smaller.
The small case will also reduce the amount of free air circulating around the electronic components - even if very well ventilated. This also doesn't help with cooling unfortunately.
A heatsink has to get rid of the heat taken from the CPU so if there isn't adequate ventilation, it will fix one problem and probably cause another.
I suspect that you may find that a cooling fan is the only option.
Thanks
Gavin
Strange that Digiboxes are the only things affeted in such a bad way. Poor designs I guess.
The heatsink removes heat from the CPU using conduction via the thermal compound
Iam a satellite installer Mijas Costa Spain.
The problem is similar to another board members problem. Which in turn is similar to mine.
The common denominator is that all three of us have the panasonic TU-DSB30. We have all developed the same problem at the same time and I don't know about the other 2 but I can assure you all my box is not overheating.
There does seem to be a link in that we all channel surf using the up down buttons and this is something I do pretty fast. I've always surfed this way so my money wouldn't be on overheating boxes but rather a software error peculiar to the Panasonic introduced during the last update.
It wouldn't be the first time an error has affected only one type of box and I'm quite sure it won't be the last!!!
john.
The CPU is well known for failing because, unlike in a PC, it's not fitted with a heatsink and fan. My money is still on a failing CPU or maybe even a power supply fault.
So there is a possibility of software problems.
Thanks for the correction
All,
I was over in Spain last week and the in-laws DSB30 was working fine (25-30 degrees C ambient). Their box has a Zalman heatsink on the CPU (which may or may not be relevant) fitted before being sent to Spain and have the latest software loaded on the box.
Incidentally, their DSB30 also worked fine throughout last August in Spain during the heatwave which I suspect would have been a much harsher test of boxes overheating in general ?
We also have a DSB30 (with Zalman) in the UK which is working fine as well.
I wonder if the overheating issue is a bit of a red herring and that it is software related when using a large dish ?
The in-laws are fortunate in that they only need a 1.1m dish (and MTI Blueline 0.6dB single LNB) to pickup Astra 2D 24x7 as they live on the east coast of Spain.
Thanks
Gavin
Erm yes and no.
Sometimes a software error manifests itself only when a certain set of parameters are met and in this case it appears one of the (probably many) parameters is to be using the +/- buttons really fast.
If all parameters aren't met then the box will behave as all other boxes do so it appears that only some boxes are affected yet all have the potential to ehibit the problem.
I'm not discounting anything other people have said about heat issues though. The Panny does run hot and any cooling will prolong the life and reliabilty of the CPU but like I said before, I think this time it isn't a heat issue and as you'll see above, another board member has mentioned 2 more panny boxes that had the problem.
Only way to sort it is to turn the box off at the mains, it sometimes also takes a long time to "Search for Listings" after this
The upstairs Panny30 wont misbehave, whatever I do. However fast I zap it's OK.
The downstairs Panny30 I can get to malfunction by fast zapping. Today it's not fully locking up, as there is still some control, but it seems the tuner is not able to keep up with this fast zapping, so there comes a point when the signal is not there. I was able to reset by unplugging the lnb, then replugging, and all is OK again.
The indication might be that this tuner is aging on this STB. We know from previous threads, that there is a power rail decoupling capacitor in or near the tuner, which if not functioning correctly will cause the CPU to lock up. Of course this is not scientific, as I haven't swapped over the lnb feeds to discount the lnb (Invacom Twin), and I haven't used a fan as the case of the digibox is hardly warm.
This is only a theory, and could be knocked down. :cool: