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Surely this is illegal!!
jonnyjackov
Posts: 2,384 Forum Member
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Hi,
I live in Spain, have Sky with a 1.2m dish, and recieve most channels except the bbc, itv, c4 etc, which are only available with a 2m dish or bigger.
Over the last few weeks an advert has appeared in a local English newspaper, and leaflets have appeared around town about a new service starting soon. Apparenty transmitting from the top of a VERY tall hotel near me, will be the all of the bbc channels, itv channels, C4, C5, E4 and a selection of Sky digital channels. Subscription will cost 19 euros per month, plus 600 euros for the equipment, with a 40 euro deposit. I know lots of people who have signed up.
I have heard of this type of service before in other parts of Spain, but cannot believe this is legal. Advertising for the service is extensive, and the hotel from which it will be broadcast is a very famous hotel, with no attempt to keep it secret.
What is going on. Does anyone have any views or knowledge of this type of service.
Cheers, Jon
I live in Spain, have Sky with a 1.2m dish, and recieve most channels except the bbc, itv, c4 etc, which are only available with a 2m dish or bigger.
Over the last few weeks an advert has appeared in a local English newspaper, and leaflets have appeared around town about a new service starting soon. Apparenty transmitting from the top of a VERY tall hotel near me, will be the all of the bbc channels, itv channels, C4, C5, E4 and a selection of Sky digital channels. Subscription will cost 19 euros per month, plus 600 euros for the equipment, with a 40 euro deposit. I know lots of people who have signed up.
I have heard of this type of service before in other parts of Spain, but cannot believe this is legal. Advertising for the service is extensive, and the hotel from which it will be broadcast is a very famous hotel, with no attempt to keep it secret.
What is going on. Does anyone have any views or knowledge of this type of service.
Cheers, Jon
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http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?p=31745&page=3&pp=15
Or: more directly, a quote from a person there
From what I have heard and read about the "TV without frontiers" directive (or whatever it is called, which applies to all of europe) is that any TV signal that you can receive FTA you are allowed to watch, show to the public (eg in a bar) or retransmit freely.
Retransmit freely was restricted to frequency ranges you are allowed to use in the country you are in (so not on UHF/VHF in the UK etc) and freely also meant not encrypt and make a profit from. If the original broadcaster does not have the rights to broadcast their program in the second country it is not you the rebroadcaster that is at fault for showing the channel, but the initial broadcaster for showing the channels FTA in the second country at all.
Now that would make it look like the BBC channels can be rebroadcast legally, if you are using a legal frequency range and don’t make a profit from it.
But already that looks like the rebroadcasters are breaking the law by charging people a monthly subscription. However they may be able to pass that off as ‘equipment rent’ or something if the channels are still being broadcast FTA.
However the rebroadcasters cannot broadcast ITV/Ch4/Ch5 or any Sky channels, they are not FTA. There is no way of getting a card that will legally allow you to broadcast these channels abroad, ITV/Sky etc do not have the rights to broadcast their channels outside the UK, if they did they could post cards straight to subscribers in these countries.
How these rebroadcast networks have been given a legal status I don’t know, and would be interested to find out. It could be that the authorities were misinformed (by the rebroadcasters claiming that all the channels they were showing were FTA etc). It could be that the laws are very lapsed in some areas. It could be a brown envelope filled with notes arrived on the doorstep of an important person, or it could just be that the rebroadcasters are claiming that everything is now legal now when in fact nothing has changed.
If any of this is wrong please correct me, this is just taken from things I have come across now and then and may be outdated (or never correct). Also if anyone knows how these rebroadcasters claim to be doing it legally please let me know also.
Anyway rebroadcasting is a legal nightmare, unless you are very sure of what you are doing and the laws, or just want to run for as long as possible without getting caught, I would stay well away from it.
"They can't do that - it's illegal!" is a very English sort of thing to say.
Hi All, I do know something about this type of system as my friend was invovled in litigation with the Guardia Civil and Town Hall. These systems only operate where the BASIC channels need a very big dish and as there are many apartments/people crowded into such little space there is no other choice than watch them via microwave. Jon you do not say where you are in Spain , possibly Alicante, Torrievieja, or the Canary Isands as the forums state you need a 2.4mt to view all the channels. My friend wrote to the BBC for clarification on there policy , back came the reply " you cannot receive our channels outside the UK" . Armed with that official information he presented this to the courts and Guardia Civil who then gave back all the equipment with no further charges , the system is now back up and operating and everybody is happy. One downside is that previously they transmitted Canal Holland for the football and as Spain transmitts Via Digital/Canal Plus they were told not to have these on the service. All these "illegal services" can be stopped so easy by jamming the signals but do Sky/BBC care, at the moment no. Thanks
Rebroadcasting any channel without permission of that channel is illegal.
Most of the time though nothing happens unless unless somebody like Canal+ finds that these channel are showing things that they own the rights for ,or the channel owners themseld find out and want to do somthing about it.
I wonder if anyone's every set this sort of thing up in the UK...
How many other countries have a TV license. Not many.
Fund the BBC yes, but making people pay separately from income tax is IMHO wrong.
I'm sure that those with broadcasting wrights will jump on any "rebroadcasting", before the BBC have even woken up.
Never. Like I said, in Britain there is this idea that laws should actually be obeyed. This pendantic sort of thinking resulted in Thomas More getting his head chopped off.
Nearly every European country has TV licensing.
Where I am I get just as much Hungarian TV over antenna (over the border) for free as I pay for in Austria, but cannot receive the Austrian channels on antenna, only via satellite.
Crazy situation when you are living on a border. However, the Austrian channels do show all international football matches on the main public channel, not like the BBC/Sky arrangement.
For the money, the UK licence, certainly compared to where I am, is pretty good value for money in my opinion. Shame the folks in Spain don't pay it though.
The Austrian cable provider www.kabsi.at tried to retransmit BBC1 and BBC2 last year, via cable. When the BBC got wind of it, they contacted the company who promptly switched it off after the Beeb threatened legal action. So fact is, it is one rule fo Austria and another for Spain. Having spent some time in Alicante last year I couldn't believe the amount of folks getting BBC and ITV there, even Sky Sports, all rebroadcast from local providers for cash - quite unbelievable that they get away with it - obviously some BBC execs have houses or property down there. If the BBC wanted to stop it they could, they did so where I live, but I just don't think they care about Spain.
What's to stop me just sticking my own equipment up and picking up the signal there?? Anybody tried that?
UK
Switzerland
South Africa
Finland
Eire
Germany
France
Spain
Japan
Holland
Italy
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Austria
Plus a few more, and quite a few are more expensive than the UK, e.g. Austria £180 for 2 channels, whereas in the UK you get 8 TV channels (with upto 17 variations of each) 10 National Radio, 60+ local radio and the website
Local people paid a (voluntary!) rental to have the BBC rebroadcast at local level.
And the authorities didn't seem much motivated to do much about it...
Nope.
When someone creates a 'work' (which could be a book, photo, TV program, music CD, etc.) they own the copyright, and for 50 years they have complete control over how and where it can be copied. No EU directive can change that.
If the copyright owner of a TV program says that it can be rebroadcast, then it can. If they don't give that permission, then anyone rebroadcasting it anywhere is breaking the law. Doesn't matter what country they receive the signal from.
What the TV without Frontiers directive says is that no-one can be prevented from watching a TV signal which they can freely receive, i.e it would be illegal for the French authorities to set up jamming stations to prevent people in France from watching UK TV (or arresting them for watching) if they happen to be able to pick up UK signals. This directive exists to stop the old Soviet-style censorshop where people could only get news that w as controlled by the state.
It has nothing to do with rebroadcasting, that is the subject of European copyright law , which is very clear. Without permission, it's illegal.
Yes, many communities use what are known as Self-Help schemes.
When UHF TV was rolled out, a certain threshold population was required for the BBC/IBA to fund a transmitter. If your village had less than this, a village could buy their own low power one, aquire a licence, and have someone plan which frequencies to use.
However if you set one up illegally, expect your door to be kicked down, a hefty fine, and a confiscation of all equipment.
I am afraid Not Spain
There's probably nothing stopping them from arranging a deal with the BBC. In Holland nearly every single household is on cable and nearly every single one of them carry BBC1 and BBC2. Have been since the late 80s.
I don't know what the exact deal is, but I am sure the BBC are compensated for this in some form. Although the situation regarding broadcasting rights is quite dodgy. I remember Canal+ complaining a few years back about the Oscars Ceremony being free on the BBC, while Canal+ had the Dutch rights. Lots of US and UK series and movies on the Beeb can be seen here usually months before they air on regular Dutch channels like RTL4 or SBS6.
But perhaps I'm wrong and this is just some sort of deal between neighbouring countries as Dutch cable also carries Flemmish channels (VRT) and German national broadcasters ARD and ZDF (and vice versa).
Holland in the early eighties,there used to be a big parabolic
antenna placed on a large appartment block,which received
the terrestial signal.
This reception was very dependent on the weather,after which the signal was received in France and using microwave,it was rebroadcast,(ONLY BBC)on cable.ITV was
not allowed by the Dutch Goverment at the time because of the advertising.
Now the cable is full of commercial programmes,RTL4/5
YORIN, SBS, ect which are full of BBC and ITV programmes.
not a lot of people in population terms watch the BBC,mostly ex pats,and now with FTA a 45 cm dish and you can get the lot on Satellite.so who cares,nobody really.
Did you even bother to read SteveMcK's post?
The BBC aren't stopping people watching if they have a 2m dish - that probably would be against the law.
I bet if ntl tried the same with Austrian TV without securing rights the same would happen.
Not strictly true. You don't need a TV license to listen to the radio stations or look at the website. The license payer's money may be used to fund them, but you don't have to pay to use them, you only have to pay to use a TV (Even if you don't watch the BBC!!)