If TiVo return to the UK would you buy one and be happy to pay for an EPG.

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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TiVo are thinking about returning to the UK market.

It is likely that any entry back into the UK market will be based on the TiVo series 2 hardware platform though with a UK FreeView Tuner (probably twin tuner) and the full TiVO Plus EPG service.

You can get an idea what you get from a TiVo version to by looking at the TiVo web site http://www.tivo.com/1.2.asp (for details about the TiVo plus service).

So would you buy such a product and would you pay extra for the EPG?

If TiVo return to the UK would you buy one and be happy to pay the TiVo Plus service. 583 votes

I will buy a new TiVo v2 for the UK and pay £10 a month for the TiVo Plus Service
8% 49 votes
I will buy a new TiVo v2 for the UK and pay £199 for a lifetime TiVo service.
23% 138 votes
I would buy a new TiVo v2 for the UK but would pay no more than £5 a month for the TiVo service.
5% 32 votes
I would buy a new TiVo v2 for the UK and pay £99 for a lifetime TiVo service.
15% 92 votes
I would buy a new TiVo v2 with TiVo service included in the price (adding £150 to the RRP)
7% 44 votes
I would buy a new TiVo v2 for the UK but don't want to pay extra for the service.
18% 108 votes
I would NOT buy a TiVo v2 PVR for the UK.
12% 74 votes
I will NOT but a TiVo v2 PVR for the UK (Freeview) BECAUSE I already have Sky+
7% 46 votes
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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 18,132
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    Nope.
    No argument that the OS and EPG are superior to both the current DTT and SKY offerings and probably the TW service for it's DVR but I wouldn't pay a monthly or one fee for it.

    Mind you having said that if it had been an option for the SKY+ (similar to DirecTV) back in 2001 then it may have been a closer call:)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    Jarrak wrote:
    Nope.
    No argument that the OS and EPG are superior to both the current DTT and SKY offerings and probably the TW service for it's DVR but I wouldn't pay a monthly or one fee for it.

    So why - you are paying Sky that for Sky+ is it that you are happy with Sky+? and so don't need another PVR?

    And should I be adding another answer to the survey I have Sky+ so I won't be buying a Freeview TiVo :)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    It depends what it gives me. If it gets corrections to some of my gripes with TiVo, then maybe. If not, then I'll happily stick with my current TiVo.

    It depends a lot on how much the cost is. I'd prefer to be able to prepay for life. Of course, I'd much prefer to carry over my current lifetime subscription :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,407
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    From a personal view the limiting factor for Freeview is the lack of channels on freeview. I have cable and would like an option to plug my STB in a TiVo but just having the freeview option means that only people that want freeview will be interested. Seeing as around 10m have Sky and digital cable means that TiVo will limit themselves to their market.

    I haven't voted (due to the freeview only option) but would prefer all inclusive option rather than a monthly sub, if I were going to pay that I may as well get Sky.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 185
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    what would a freeview enabled tivo2 offer over a tivo 1 + tivo controllable STB?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    It depends a lot on how much the cost is. I'd prefer to be able to prepay for life. Of course, I'd much prefer to carry over my current lifetime subscription :)

    An interesting idea. As at the moment TiVo are paying for our calls to them on an 0800 number there would be quite a big incentive to offer current TiVo users some kind of "discount" on upgrading.

    But who knows if they would do that. I do however like the idea about this.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    what would a freeview enabled tivo2 offer over a tivo 1 + tivo controllable STB?

    Of course all speculation at the moment but that speculation is that it would offer two tuners so you could record two channels at the same time (or record one and watch one) in the same way Sky+ does.

    The other advantages are:

    - No external STB - always a problem - even when you think you have it working perfectly it very occasionally doesn't change channel - always on an important programme :(

    - Version 2 adds additional functionality over that including their new remote setting (via the web) and home media system (to allow the showing of content on your PC and the ability to download shows to your PC for viewing on your portable or burn to DVD if you have such software). All done over the Ethernet connection.

    These version 2 features are what really adds value over the current v1 system - which I do love and run 3 of them - two with Sky and one with Freeview. But being able to remote control the TiVo and being able to download shows to a PC add sufficient value for me to be able to say that a V2 TiVo would be an excellent and immediate replacement of one of my V1 TiVo's.

    As others have said the icing on the cake would be the ability to record from an external source but I think as people have said in the other thread that might be unlikely to keep the price low in a device that records the direct data stream you don't need a MPEG encoder chip.

    Considering how long the TiVo version 2 has been around and the fact that MPEG4 encoder/decoder chips are now available in hardware and relatively inexpensive it can't be long before TiVo launch a v3 hardware platform taking advantage of the leaps in technology that have happened over the last couple of years in the encoding of video. But that really won't effect any TiVo that records the data stream directly.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,528
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    Can someone clear up some confusion I have about Tivo? I was recently in the States so visited some of the electronics shops (Frys, Best Buy, Circuit City) and they were all selling the US based Tivo but it was actually badged "Humax Tivo". So is Tivo really just a Humax then? As Humax already do a single tuner DTT-PVR (the 8000) and have a dual tuner one promised for later this year is *that* going to be a "Tivo" then or something else (presumably using either FV 7day or 4TV 14 day EPG)?

    Cliff
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 467
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    Tivo is just the software Humax is the hardware manufacturer, in the US there are several manfacturers oftivo including Sony, Phillips etc
  • Stone FreeStone Free Posts: 1,029
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    What about adding I would only buy a TIVO with an integrated digital tuner? I want broadcast quality pictures, no re-compression.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    CJL wrote:
    As Humax already do a single tuner DTT-PVR (the 8000) and have a dual tuner one promised for later this year is *that* going to be a "Tivo" then or something else (presumably using either FV 7day or 4TV 14 day EPG)?

    Cliff

    Which is why when Humax announced the deal with the US everyone asked if they would do a UK version.

    TiVo is software that runs on a Linux base (a type of Unix) that has been customised to provide a very stable and robust PVR solution.

    Having seen TiVo in the UK a couple of weeks ago the hope of a return to the UK is that they persuade Humax to build the hardware as you noted they already do all the bits of the jigsaw.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 18,132
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    ALanJ wrote:
    So why - you are paying Sky that for Sky+ is it that you are happy with Sky+? and so don't need another PVR?

    And should I be adding another answer to the survey I have Sky+ so I won't be buying a Freeview TiVo :)



    I was paying SKY a tenner a month but not know since it's integrated into selected packages.

    When TIVO launched it was interesting but at a combined £600 it was to expensive especially since I had a 100% reliable VCR/Digibox system working.
    When SKY+ was announced I was hooked straight away, bitstream recording, integrated one box solution, DD audio etc.

    I've been in the market for a Freeview HD based solution for 18 months, that was the main reason I spent £200 for a new aerial and distribution around the house. So far none of the STB's have made a seriously good impression on me.
    So I do want this sort of product but the extra facilites offered by TIVO software would not be worth paying the extra hardware costs and subscription.

    Like many US viewers/consumers are proving the less complex and integrated DVR solution for both cable/sat and terrestrial is a good enough solution.

    A TIVO based product with DTT tuners is overkill unless you have cable or satellite but when I had the choice I picked SKY+ and if I lived in a TW area the their new DVR looks the business.

    I did wonder if TIVO would be partnering TW, seems to me that it's a good opportunity since many features that TIVO users have are patented and won't appear on none TIVO hardware.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    Jarrak wrote:
    I've been in the market for a Freeview HD based solution for 18 months, that was the main reason I spent £200 for a new aerial and distribution around the house. So far none of the STB's have made a seriously good impression on me.

    Indeed this is the problem the machines that are out there are just a small step up from a VCR and no where near as sophisticated as Sky+.
    Jarrak wrote:
    So I do want this sort of product but the extra facilites offered by TIVO software would not be worth paying the extra hardware costs and subscription.

    As you have Sky+ I can understand why I think that this product really would be aimed at people who don't have Sky but who want a real EPG driven PVR.

    On the other hand Sky are now pushing Sky+ as the primary way to atract new subscribers. But there will always be a market for people who don't have Sky but do want this functionality.
    Jarrak wrote:
    Like many US viewers/consumers are proving the less complex and integrated DVR solution for both cable/sat and terrestrial is a good enough solution.

    I think people buy less complex DVR solutions because they know and understand the VCR model and are happy with that. I wonder how many of them would, if given a PVR, would return to a DVR?
    Jarrak wrote:
    A TIVO based product with DTT tuners is overkill unless you have cable or satellite but when I had the choice I picked SKY+ and if I lived in a TW area the their new DVR looks the business.

    I assume you mean DO NOT have cable or satellite - which I totally agree. This is a product for the anticipated 50% of households that are likely to not have Satellite or Cable in the coming years. DTT will be the standard for those and a proportion of those will want this kind of functionality.

    Now Sky have realised that this is amazing functionality and are pushing it hard and it is only now that the cable companies are arriving in the frame. The other thing Sky have discovered is that with a product like Sky+ you don't leave Sky.
    Jarrak wrote:
    I did wonder if TIVO would be partnering TW, seems to me that it's a good opportunity since many features that TIVO users have are patented and won't appear on none TIVO hardware.

    Only time will tell if they do deals with anyone else, or indeed anyone in the UK.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,705
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    The great thing about Tivo was that when it was released it was the only DVR (Digital Video Recorder) with its own EPG, so they had the edge over every other product, they were so good they even made up there own term "PVR" (Personal Video Recorder) :rolleyes:

    The software was fantastic, and the 14day EPG had far more detail than the sky tv guide does, even today!, for example you could search for your favorite program by director or actor, you could specify your preferences and it would record programs of the same genre for you without having to achally tell it what program to record! It would also "spy" on your viewing habbits, say if you watched the same program three times in a row, and then you miss the next episode - you dident even have to tell it you wanted to record it, it would automatically change channel on your set top box and record it automatically, unless you are already watching something then it would search for any repeats of the show and set another recording date. Tivo's 5 year old hardware that still functions today was made up by the best DVR/PVR software ever made - and it was based on linux.

    The problem now is that tivo have lost the market edge! Tivo worked closely with sky to build Tivo and at one point sky were even showing adverts for tivo! But when Tivo moved out of the UK sky realised they could easly build there own intergrated sky DVR product and sell it themselfs. If you look at the USA, there you can get a satalite service called DirectTV (like sky) but there DVR product is not called "DirectTV+" it is called "DirectTV+Tivo " because customours know that Tivo software and EPG are far superior to anything that the satalite companys could come up with themselfs.

    If Tivo want to take off in the UK again, they are not going to do it with there origional SCART based PVR, they cannot do it with a freeview PVR (as using the freeview EPG defeats the point of the enhanced Tivo software), they need to bring in something that will make everything easyer, maby a cable PVR with a built in DVD recorder and hard drive like they have in the US, I cannot see them challengeing sky+'s stolen patents and launching a "sky+tivo" with three tuners or maby HDTV as there is no point, the message has been fed to the public (from murdoch and co) that "sky+ is the thing to have" and people have fallen for it.

    If Tivo lauch another "£299 for a DVR" and a extra "£199 lifetime EPG" (aka, PVR), they will go bust, just like they did in year 2000, they need to get something new and inspired in fast... perhaps Setting programs to be recorded from a PC or mobile phone to the Tivo etc.
    -Chris
  • russellellyrussellelly Posts: 11,687
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    If Tivo lauch another "£299 for a DVR" and a extra "£199 lifetime EPG" (aka, PVR), they will go bust, just like they did in year 2000, they need to get something new and inspired in fast... perhaps Setting programs to be recorded from a PC or mobile phone to the Tivo etc.
    -Chris

    TiVo v2 is the States allows you to set timers via your PC. TiVo2Go, the version with DVDR built in would also be something totally different to what we already have.

    What they would need is effective marketing, especially in-store, get store staff trained up and genuinely excited about the product (and have plenty of commision on it ;) ). That would be the first step to success this time round IMO.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 16
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    Exactly - the key is in the marketing.
    Ive never ever seen anyone who has spent more than 5mins with a tivo and not instantly fallen in love with it. The same cannot be said for Sky+ or any of the Freeview DVR's.

    Fingers crossed that they do come back to the UK with a new model - i'd preorder mine today if I could! ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11
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    Can we have a new option to select?

    "I'd give up my first born, a kidney and a lung AND I'd pay a £200 lifetime sub" :D

    Please, please, please let me get my grubbies on a twin Freeview tuner S2 TiVo!

    Pops.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    Tivo's 5 year old hardware that still functions today was made up by the best DVR/PVR software ever made - and it was based on linux.

    Indeed I use it all the time and it still is an excellent platform and very flexible.
    But when Tivo moved out of the UK sky realised they could easly build there own intergrated sky DVR product and sell it themselfs.

    Actually Sky were working on Sky+ while they were working with TiVo. TiVo didn't get the contract for the integrated service probably becuase Sky+ was developed by NDS also owned by News International. Being more charatible Sy decided they wanted a less complicated service to intially launch to Sky users and one that was fully integrated into Sky's interface.
    If you look at the USA, there you can get a satalite service called DirectTV (like sky) but there DVR product is not called "DirectTV+" it is called "DirectTV+Tivo " because customours know that Tivo software and EPG are far superior to anything that the satalite companys could come up with themselfs.

    And now that News International own DirecTV TiVo are likely to loose their exclusive contract and DirecTV are likely to launch a Sky+ based product.
    If Tivo want to take off in the UK again, they are not going to do it with there origional SCART based PVR,

    Totally agree it has to have an integrated digital tuner of some kind to be competition.
    they cannot do it with a freeview PVR (as using the freeview EPG defeats the point of the enhanced Tivo software),

    I would agree they can't do it with the Freeview EPG but they could do it with either an enhanced EPG (furher enhanced fromt eh 4TV concept) or by downloading via the phone line or broadband connection.
    they need to bring in something that will make everything easyer,

    Indeed.
    maby a cable PVR with a built in DVD recorder and hard drive like they have in the US,

    The problem is that the cable companies have to make that deicision and for TiVo to sell to them is as hard as it is for them to sell the Sky. It is also a relatively small market in the UK.
    I cannot see them challengeing sky+'s stolen patents and launching a "sky+tivo" with three tuners or maby HDTV as there is no point, the message has been fed to the public (from murdoch and co) that "sky+ is the thing to have" and people have fallen for it.

    You might also remember that Sky own shares in TiVo so I'm not sure that they have stolen anything :)

    TiVo's oportunity now is that there is a market for a PVR that was not there when they were last in the UK. For anyone who does not have or who does not want Sky there needs to be a sensible alternative and TiVo might be able to find that niche (but they need to hurry up). Sky are going to be marketing Sky+ as the primary way of getting Sky over the next 6months - year.
    If Tivo lauch another "£299 for a DVR" and a extra "£199 lifetime EPG" (aka, PVR), they will go bust, just like they did in year 2000, they need to get something new and inspired in fast... perhaps Setting programs to be recorded from a PC or mobile phone to the Tivo etc.
    -Chris

    The entry point for a TiVo based machine does need to be a great deal less than it was in 2000 to be competitive. It also needs to have more functionality. :)
  • JethroUKJethroUK Posts: 6,107
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    Tivo wont be coming to UK - the hardware market is too competative & too small - best case scenario would be for tivo to sell their service (EPG) to existing hardware suppliers
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,819
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    That's what TiVo do do, most of the time.
  • JethroUKJethroUK Posts: 6,107
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    'One day' a company will develop the ultimate programming software, and all hardware manufacturers will subscribe to it - but then again, 'One Day', a man will land on Mars

    Radio Times have the best programming guide I've ever used & I'm looking forward to their forth comming merge with Guide+ EPG - I see this combo as unstoppable - and it's all Freeeeeeeeeeeeeee
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,819
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    The BBC are working on a new EPG which contains the metadata neaded to implement a PVR properly, as well as other gizmos like the abilty to set up a recording by pressing red during a trailer.

    Unfortuantely it is still at least a couple of years away from being available... :(
  • JethroUKJethroUK Posts: 6,107
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    The Gemstar/Radio Times deal was shook in April 05 - It should be up running before April 06
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,819
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    Is this the one funded by ads, n the EPG, yes? Rather pay a sub personally!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,008
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    JethroUK wrote:
    Tivo wont be coming to UK - the hardware market is too competative & too small - best case scenario would be for tivo to sell their service (EPG) to existing hardware suppliers

    This is exactly how TiVo run their business with the exception of the Series 2 in the US which they seem to have got into the manufacture of all their deals are with hardware manufacturers and then they make money by people subscribing to their service.
    JethroUK wrote:
    'One day' a company will develop the ultimate programming software, and all hardware manufacturers will subscribe to it - but then again, 'One Day', a man will land on Mars

    Some would say that that day happened back in 1999 when TiVo launched. In many peoples eyes it is the benchmark against which other EPG based PVRs are measured. But we are still at a point when the consumer does not realise the benefit of a true EPG based PVR and are still happy with a VCR based timer or basic EPG.

    Any such service that you describe as the "ultimate" will have to be paid for and that can be via subscription / one off payment / or advertising.

    TiVo have taken the first two options up to now but are certainly exploring the third option in the US.
    JethroUK wrote:
    Radio Times have the best programming guide I've ever used & I'm looking forward to their forth coming merge with Guide+ EPG - I see this combo as unstoppable - and it's all Freeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    But as Sanderton says if it has advertising it isn't FREE. And generally speaking it is hard to have an excellent EPG that is FREE as the cost of maintaining it exists. In the case of the Radio Times you over £50 per year for the paper version. And you still have to do all the clever bits manually and it has advertising.

    So why would a down loadable version be any cheaper to the end user? No I can't think of a reason either. The reality is that unless the BBC et al in Freeview decide to require a more sophisticated EPG and build it as part of the platform then there will be a cost involved to someone.

    Of course there is no reason why the Freeview could not do that but they have not yet if they did then manufacturers could create a Freeview version of Sky+ without any problem. But even then there is a market opportunity for a more sophisticated PVR and TiVo looks like the only candidate.
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