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Sony's "pestigious" BRAVIA KDL-W40A12U; a real dilemma!
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Hello all!
I am a fairly active member in the PVR threads, however you may note that I have a flat panel Freeview from Sony (KDL-L32MRX1), which IMHO aesthetically remains the best around. Ok, I know I may be mad in considering upgrading already, however I always wanted a 40"+ and the 42MRX1 model last year was simply not affordable at almost £5000! The prices have dropped quite remarkably in 18 months and I have been in the fortunate position to trial Sony's top of the range BRAVIA, KDL-W40A12U, for the past 3 days - my nice local dealer, from whom I purchased my 32", let me borrow their 2 day old display model!
In terms of physical width and height dimensions it is actually only slightly larger than my current MRX1, however, disappointingly deeper. The latter is mainly due to the "media box" components of the MRX1 having been integrated in to the main TV chasis. The other negative effect are that the cooling fans at the back, at times, are audible.
Clearly, the most important aspect of a TV is the image, however I will state immediately that the sound is extremely impressive, mainly due to a subwoofer built in to the TV chasis. The picture - hm!!! At the dealer it was being demonstrated with official Sony recordings (images from Las Vegas, Vancouver, etc) using the RDR-HXD910 Hard Drive Recorder with HDMI connection - from a sales perspective it blew my mind - you simply have to see the picture to believe it, you would almost buy it just on that basis. However...
On taking it home and setting it up in the same way as the 32MRX1, I was truly disappointed by the quality of the Freeview resolution. Both TVs ran side by side and all I can say is that the MRX1 resolution is streets ahead; in fact the resolution of the new BRAVIA was worse than the analogue signal of the MRX1. I switched off the MRX1 and connected the BRAVIA directly to my high quality aerial output, tried all different saturations and other adjustments, however nothing really improved. Considering I gave up SKY for Freeview daily viewing my MRX1 purchase was vindicated, however daily Freeview viewing with the new BRAVIA is going to be painful. My dealer made a comment and I watched a V-series 40" BRAVIA with similar feelings at the end - oh dear! Why is this the Freeview image worse than the MRX1 range... no one seems to have an answer :eek:
I will add that the W40A12U with my PAL Progressive DVD player produced results as sharp, detailed, natural and clear as those on the MRX1, of course larger - basically fantastic though not HD as per the dealer's demo.
High Definition - well, when it happens, SKY Movies HD will be fantastic, though only slightly better than those output by my PAL Progressive player. A handful of other HD channels will help, however, for my daily viewing I prefer to use Freeview (and HD is a long way off for this platform). My dilemma is that the new BRAVIA falls terribly short compared to my current smaller MRX1, and the fact that SKY HD will be costlier than standard SKY (probably another £10 per month!), I am not sure that I can warrant upgrading. The lack of the HDMI socket on the current MRX1 is not critical as the initial SKY box will have component outputs, therefore I should be able to view HD images in the future.
So, whilst I am ready to part with the cash for a better sounding TV, daily viewing will appear worse. The new TV is so capable but the truth is that very few will have the chance to experience it until HD brodacasting becomes the norm, and HDMI DVD players and PVRs come down in price. The lack of a PC Input (as in the MRX1) is a great omission too. All in all, apart from not having an HDMI connection, the older MRX1 range, I feel is superior to the new BRAVIA range... and lets not forget that the superb WEGA Engine is effectively being used in the new BRAVIAs, the latter being the new name to market LCD TVs.
So am I going to part with the cash or wait? A very painful decision from a true Sony buff... wait
I am a fairly active member in the PVR threads, however you may note that I have a flat panel Freeview from Sony (KDL-L32MRX1), which IMHO aesthetically remains the best around. Ok, I know I may be mad in considering upgrading already, however I always wanted a 40"+ and the 42MRX1 model last year was simply not affordable at almost £5000! The prices have dropped quite remarkably in 18 months and I have been in the fortunate position to trial Sony's top of the range BRAVIA, KDL-W40A12U, for the past 3 days - my nice local dealer, from whom I purchased my 32", let me borrow their 2 day old display model!
In terms of physical width and height dimensions it is actually only slightly larger than my current MRX1, however, disappointingly deeper. The latter is mainly due to the "media box" components of the MRX1 having been integrated in to the main TV chasis. The other negative effect are that the cooling fans at the back, at times, are audible.
Clearly, the most important aspect of a TV is the image, however I will state immediately that the sound is extremely impressive, mainly due to a subwoofer built in to the TV chasis. The picture - hm!!! At the dealer it was being demonstrated with official Sony recordings (images from Las Vegas, Vancouver, etc) using the RDR-HXD910 Hard Drive Recorder with HDMI connection - from a sales perspective it blew my mind - you simply have to see the picture to believe it, you would almost buy it just on that basis. However...
On taking it home and setting it up in the same way as the 32MRX1, I was truly disappointed by the quality of the Freeview resolution. Both TVs ran side by side and all I can say is that the MRX1 resolution is streets ahead; in fact the resolution of the new BRAVIA was worse than the analogue signal of the MRX1. I switched off the MRX1 and connected the BRAVIA directly to my high quality aerial output, tried all different saturations and other adjustments, however nothing really improved. Considering I gave up SKY for Freeview daily viewing my MRX1 purchase was vindicated, however daily Freeview viewing with the new BRAVIA is going to be painful. My dealer made a comment and I watched a V-series 40" BRAVIA with similar feelings at the end - oh dear! Why is this the Freeview image worse than the MRX1 range... no one seems to have an answer :eek:
I will add that the W40A12U with my PAL Progressive DVD player produced results as sharp, detailed, natural and clear as those on the MRX1, of course larger - basically fantastic though not HD as per the dealer's demo.
High Definition - well, when it happens, SKY Movies HD will be fantastic, though only slightly better than those output by my PAL Progressive player. A handful of other HD channels will help, however, for my daily viewing I prefer to use Freeview (and HD is a long way off for this platform). My dilemma is that the new BRAVIA falls terribly short compared to my current smaller MRX1, and the fact that SKY HD will be costlier than standard SKY (probably another £10 per month!), I am not sure that I can warrant upgrading. The lack of the HDMI socket on the current MRX1 is not critical as the initial SKY box will have component outputs, therefore I should be able to view HD images in the future.
So, whilst I am ready to part with the cash for a better sounding TV, daily viewing will appear worse. The new TV is so capable but the truth is that very few will have the chance to experience it until HD brodacasting becomes the norm, and HDMI DVD players and PVRs come down in price. The lack of a PC Input (as in the MRX1) is a great omission too. All in all, apart from not having an HDMI connection, the older MRX1 range, I feel is superior to the new BRAVIA range... and lets not forget that the superb WEGA Engine is effectively being used in the new BRAVIAs, the latter being the new name to market LCD TVs.
So am I going to part with the cash or wait? A very painful decision from a true Sony buff... wait
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I've been trying to work out what was wrong with it, do you think they are upscaling it to HD and it's a scaller problem or is it actually a problem with the built in freeview decoder ?
No I've seen this also it's on the whole Bravia range ! :eek:
This is why it is a dilemma (perhaps more so for current LCD owners with Freeview)... and hence I will wait!
What makes you think that???
beautiful pictures and it has two hdmi sockets..
new toshiba dvd players have hdmi output
http://www.home-entertainment.toshiba.co.uk/consumer/products.nsf/pages/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-32wlt58?opendocument
The hype about these new BRAVIA lcds is unbelievable, the picture quality on these are so much inferior to the 32MRX1 and I've actually seen the Sony L42MRX1 a year or so ago - the pic quality on that beat anything that I've seen on a 40+" television.
A shame about the price (was around £7000), or else it was better than any plasma/lcd that I had seen.
And no, this wasn't even High Def - which is amazing, because I have seen the new Panasonic PV500 with HD and that was brilliant, the Pioneers are exceptional, but I still maintain that the picture quality I saw on a Sony 42LMRX1 running a DVD was absoutely jaw dropping.
If I were you, I would keep the L32MRX1 and not waste your money on these new Bravia lcds, they're a joke - try watching football on one of these and you'll see how poor it is, the motion blur is as bad i've seen on any tele.
If you want an alternative, take a look at the new Philips 9830 lcds available at 37" and 42", or even the new JVC 37" lcd. They are miles better than the Sony Bravia range.
Anyway, I have just looked up your current TV (KDL-L32MRX1) and it looks like a good model so surely you can sit tight and wait for a while yet. I only changed recently because my four year old CRT (KV32FQ75) was looking more and more gigantically absurd (and my parents in law needed a new TV so they got my old one!)
Sorry, perhaps I was not as clear as a should have been, my statement referred to standard def broadcast, not High Def. No PLasma or LCD (displaying a standard def)currently available can match the PQ of a CRT, of course High Def is a massive improvement, however, HD will not be available cheaply and mass market for some time yet so most of the viewing on these panels will be SD, infact due to the higher resolution on HD ready Plasma/LCD a standard def broadcast looks even worse compared to a standard def Plasma/LCD
The following took 90 minutes, however, I had the chance to see all sources connected at the same time for the S32, V32, S40, V40 and W40 (the one I want!). In a nutshell, the "cheapest" S32 unit gave the best picture of the lot... however in truth no better than my 32MRX1 (which is renowned for having one of the best DVB images). All the units were set to their defaults, and no matter how much the sharpness was boosted on the V and W units (the latter being technically visually the same as the V series), the Freeview images produced were not as good as the S32 and S40 units!
Moving to DVD viewing (using my copy of Spiderman 2), via the HDMI socket (and not upscaled), the image produced on any V or W series unit was absolutely fantastic and, yes, slightly better than my 32MRX1. Viewing with component inputs, I hardly noticed any difference in image quality to HDMI and felt my 32MRX1 was comparable and I became again enthusiastic in purchasing the designer W40.
So what's different with the S series and the more expensive V and W series? The latter make a song and dance about special High Definition Processors, the former does not have - perhaps these processors have an adverse effect on DVB signals - whatever the case the, DVB is far better on the S series.
But the dilemma gets worse, suggested selling price for the W40 is £3799 :eek:, however many online retailers have it for less than £3000, then 3 weeks ago, the price dropped to around £2600. I have just been offered £1500 for my 32MRX1, and then 2 days ago many online retailers dropped the price of the W40 to £2264!!! Whats going on? My local Sony dealer (not the new Sony Centre, however cannot match the online price), all of a sudden offered me it for £2800 stating that due to a shortage of V40s the W40 has been temporarily reduced in price by Sony UK in order to tempt people to buy the top of the range Sony whilst the V40 remains in short supply (he normally provides me with accurate information)!
With Sony's current cashback promotion of buying a DVD recorder at the same time as the LCD, it sounds too good to be true, however it is true... and with SKY and Sony starting joint promotions/ special deals for SKY HD at any time, I simply do not know whether I should take the plunge and put up with an inferior freeview picture for the time being... remember I want 40" and would prefer a Sony
KDL S40A12U
How did you rate DVD performance on the S?
What ticks me off more is that the Sony site suggests that the S series has a PC input (and less importantly picture in picture), however the more expensive (and supposedly better!) V and W do not - I can't understand this!
Irrespective, the reason why I could not cope with the V or S series is that my wife simply does not like the "square" design of these TVs (need I say more)!;)
I think that TVs with more, . . . . ahem, style, will date very quickly!
I thought the S series had component input* and also a PC connector! I don't have a DVD player with progressive scan so I can't comment on the visual performance. Maybe you should pay another visit to the dealer and check out that aspect of the S series?
The picture in picture is only a gimmick, i.e. you can freeze the image on the screen and continue to watch the source material in a small window. (Note the word "freeze" in the spec)
*Connections:
Component is not mentioned but is 4 pin y/c the same thing?
I'm considering a 40" Sony as well as Sky's future HD service.
Have you any more info about this?
If the poor freeview quality on the Bravia range is down to it's built in freeview decoder you can assume it isn't. I've got a VTX-D800U and the picture quality out of it is brilliant, no motion effects what so ever. I'm just wondering if Sony are going to bring out a new decoder when HD on freeview launches. Obviously the picture quality over a scart cable isn't going to be as good as HDMI/DVI or component.
Over Christmas, I spent time with my brother-in-law who to my surprise has the V40 (technically the same as the W40 apart from sound system) - he was considering a plasma Panasonic TH-42PV500, however the deals were better on the Sony! So guess what I did! I took my Panasonic TU-CTH100 and plugged it into an RGB SCART. The images of the off air Freeview recordings stored on the hard disc were, er, rather good! How irritating - so what can we conclude: either the DVB tuner is better on the Panasonic or post processing on the Sony is better than real time.
My wife, who's vocation involved medical digital imaging in the past explained to me that, especially in sonography, that whilst they relied on real time imaging they always referred back to post processed images, as the latter were always better (i.e. more detailed), and in principle would have thought the same situation appled with DVB signal processing - this is my wife telling me :eek:. Actually, I think I agree as on viewing a live DVB signal from the Panasonic, there was little difference in the quality compared to the Sony inbuilt tuner and the HDD box - the latter was ever so slighltly sharper (perhaps due to the high quality SCART cable it was attached to), however on viewing the same recorded programme the overall image was considerably sharper, had better colour saturation, suffered from less motion smear - I certainly could have lived with this quality, if only it was real time!
So perhaps the High Resolution Processors on the V and W40 Sonys are actually a problem for DVB signals - they may be geared up for HD broadcasts but play havoc with Freeview and the lack of these processors (apparently) on the "cheaper" S is the reason why the DVB pictures are better on that series. I think Sony should come come clean (er, I don't think so!)... perhaps I am dramatizing, but is this the reason why Sony is dropping the price so much (rather than due to the short supply of V40s) - do they know they have a problem with the more expensive W series
Just so you know the DVB pictures on the Panasonic TH-42PV500 were pretty awful too, whereas HD images (via stock HDD footage of Salzburg shot by Panasonic were mind-blowing - yes, my bother-in-law and I have done done a lot testing - afterall 2K+ is lot of dosh to part with!)
Just wondering if it is processing and Sony doesn't know about it could they issue a software update in the future to correct this problem ?
I have found that some of the channels look better via freeview than the SKY+ box believe it or not, you'll find that some of the channels on the various platforms look terrible such as 'babestation'
DVD Quality was good via RGB initially but i found it much better and clearer via component (first time i have tried component), I invested in good QED cables for the system.
Overall i have been very happy with the transition from CRT to LCD, HD looks fantastic via the xbox 360, a whole new level of clarity.
However the TV has had some faults and one that still has yet to be fixed, i had a fault with the freeview tuner that caused image problems due to a loose cable inside the case, and the internal speaker sometimes comes on at full blast when the set is turned on (strange but there it is) i have disabled the internal speaker via the menu as i normally use the amp for sounds anyway, although i'm going to get it serviced again by the company that sony had sent round to fix the freeview fault, principle really.
All in all though i would still recommend the current Bravia range, i viewed demo material (both SD via DVD and freeview and HD via DVI) in a sony store so i was able to make an informed choice, its a hard choice but i prefered the overall look of the V compared with the W. Never had a fault with any sony products before but this happens, much like some xbox 360 owners issues.