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*** Upgraded Your Sky+? - BETA TESTERS REQUIRED! ***
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[Deleted User]
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I am currently developing some software which will allow all of your recordings and planner entries to be copied between hard drives - Basically a "clone" function for your Sky+ drive. 
This will hopefully be ready for Beta testing in a few weeks time.
Before you all go getting wildly overexcited, this is currently only between drives of the same size. Unfortunately, for technical reasons with the way recordings are stored, it does not appear it will ever be possible to re-size the drive partition without losing at least some recordings in the process (Those stored at the "start" of the drive).
Also, before anyone else asks, this software does NOT, and will NOT, allow you to do any of the following:
* Copy your Sky+ recordings and/or view on your PC - That will almost certainly never be possible
* Copy recordings from one disk to another "selectively" - Everything on the destination will be erased.
* Move drives between different incompatible makes of boxes (although we’ve yet to establish exactly what is “incompatible”)
* Copy your recordings to a larger or smaller drive (as already stated)
* Remove the 80 GB reserved “partition” on the PVR3 drive (I just know I’ll get asked that one)
* Be run on anything other than a Windows PC (there is no Mac or Unix versions available, nor do I have plans for any)
* Anything else other than what it says on the tin – i.e. Clone your Sky+ drive to a new drive
However, before I make an official release, I would very much appreciate some Beta testers. In particular I would like some tests on other makes and models of box and with different disk sizes - I only have access to a Pace PVR1 for example. Once testing is complete, my intention is that the finished software will be down-loadable and usable licence free for personal "not-for-profit" use (Business and/or “for-profit” use would be completely different matters however).
About You
To become a Beta Tester you will:
1. Be reasonably experienced (and apt) at upgrading Sky+ boxes - Ideally you will have conducted at least one upgrade already
2. Have a PC which meets the requirements (see later) and be familiar with adding and removing IDE disks to PC systems
3. Already have at least 1 spare disk that is tested and known to work in Sky+. This should be at least the same capacity as your current drive.
4. Be prepared to accept all risks of damage, however caused, during the testing - Be this through your use (or inability to use) the Beta software provided, or in opening your Sky box or PC
5. Accept that there is a small risk of loss of data (either on your PC or your Sky+ recordings) - The program has been tested by myself, and it does take reasonable steps to protect your data (i.e. looking for certain identifiers on disks so as to only write to disks that appear to be “unpartitioned”). However as with any software, especially Beta, there is always the possibility of unexpected problems.
If you do not accept all of the above conditions, then I respectfully request that you do not apply to become a tester
About Your PC
Your PC (or laptop) must meet the following specifications:
1. Windows XP – This software may work on 2000 and NT as well, but so far I haven’t been able to test that myself
2. Support for 3 IDE drives – This can either be internal or via external USB 2 IDE “caddy” type devices, or a mixture. The 1 hard disk is your normal Windows boot drive (and should not be touched by the software) the other two are your Sky+ source/destination drives which the software will copy from/to.
Applying to Become a Beta Tester
If you meet all the above requirements, and would like to apply to become a Beta tester, then I would very much appreciate your help and support on this project. To apply please send me a PM with the following details (Please do NOT reply to this thread with this thread, other than to ask relevant questions).
Name: _______
Digitalspy Username: _______
E-Mail Address: (will be used solely for participation in this Beta test programme)
Make of Sky+ box: (please list all if you have more than one) Pace / Amstrad / Thompson
Model of box PVR1 / PVR2 / 160 / PVR3
PC OS: XP (ideally) or 2000 / NT (if you want to take a chance)
PC/laptop details: type / processor speed / RAM
IDE details: Number of IDE channels / Number of USB IDE drive caddies
Current hard disk details (Sky+): (size, make, model etc) Original / 160GB Maxtor 4R160L0 / 160GB Samsung SP1604N / etc
Planned destination drive for copy: (size, make, model etc)
Please note that the software is not quite ready for Beta yet, and I am just looking to recruit some willing testers right now – I expect to be ready to begin the Beta Programme in one or two weeks time. Please be patient and resist the temptation to ask “Is it ready yet?”
.
If you have any questions, then please post a reply! I look forward to your comments, suggestions and hopefully invaluable help with testing.
Thanks in advance for your support on this project.
This will hopefully be ready for Beta testing in a few weeks time.
Before you all go getting wildly overexcited, this is currently only between drives of the same size. Unfortunately, for technical reasons with the way recordings are stored, it does not appear it will ever be possible to re-size the drive partition without losing at least some recordings in the process (Those stored at the "start" of the drive).
Also, before anyone else asks, this software does NOT, and will NOT, allow you to do any of the following:
* Copy your Sky+ recordings and/or view on your PC - That will almost certainly never be possible
* Copy recordings from one disk to another "selectively" - Everything on the destination will be erased.
* Move drives between different incompatible makes of boxes (although we’ve yet to establish exactly what is “incompatible”)
* Copy your recordings to a larger or smaller drive (as already stated)
* Remove the 80 GB reserved “partition” on the PVR3 drive (I just know I’ll get asked that one)
* Be run on anything other than a Windows PC (there is no Mac or Unix versions available, nor do I have plans for any)
* Anything else other than what it says on the tin – i.e. Clone your Sky+ drive to a new drive
However, before I make an official release, I would very much appreciate some Beta testers. In particular I would like some tests on other makes and models of box and with different disk sizes - I only have access to a Pace PVR1 for example. Once testing is complete, my intention is that the finished software will be down-loadable and usable licence free for personal "not-for-profit" use (Business and/or “for-profit” use would be completely different matters however).
About You
To become a Beta Tester you will:
1. Be reasonably experienced (and apt) at upgrading Sky+ boxes - Ideally you will have conducted at least one upgrade already
2. Have a PC which meets the requirements (see later) and be familiar with adding and removing IDE disks to PC systems
3. Already have at least 1 spare disk that is tested and known to work in Sky+. This should be at least the same capacity as your current drive.
4. Be prepared to accept all risks of damage, however caused, during the testing - Be this through your use (or inability to use) the Beta software provided, or in opening your Sky box or PC
5. Accept that there is a small risk of loss of data (either on your PC or your Sky+ recordings) - The program has been tested by myself, and it does take reasonable steps to protect your data (i.e. looking for certain identifiers on disks so as to only write to disks that appear to be “unpartitioned”). However as with any software, especially Beta, there is always the possibility of unexpected problems.
If you do not accept all of the above conditions, then I respectfully request that you do not apply to become a tester
About Your PC
Your PC (or laptop) must meet the following specifications:
1. Windows XP – This software may work on 2000 and NT as well, but so far I haven’t been able to test that myself
2. Support for 3 IDE drives – This can either be internal or via external USB 2 IDE “caddy” type devices, or a mixture. The 1 hard disk is your normal Windows boot drive (and should not be touched by the software) the other two are your Sky+ source/destination drives which the software will copy from/to.
Applying to Become a Beta Tester
If you meet all the above requirements, and would like to apply to become a Beta tester, then I would very much appreciate your help and support on this project. To apply please send me a PM with the following details (Please do NOT reply to this thread with this thread, other than to ask relevant questions).
Name: _______
Digitalspy Username: _______
E-Mail Address: (will be used solely for participation in this Beta test programme)
Make of Sky+ box: (please list all if you have more than one) Pace / Amstrad / Thompson
Model of box PVR1 / PVR2 / 160 / PVR3
PC OS: XP (ideally) or 2000 / NT (if you want to take a chance)
PC/laptop details: type / processor speed / RAM
IDE details: Number of IDE channels / Number of USB IDE drive caddies
Current hard disk details (Sky+): (size, make, model etc) Original / 160GB Maxtor 4R160L0 / 160GB Samsung SP1604N / etc
Planned destination drive for copy: (size, make, model etc)
Please note that the software is not quite ready for Beta yet, and I am just looking to recruit some willing testers right now – I expect to be ready to begin the Beta Programme in one or two weeks time. Please be patient and resist the temptation to ask “Is it ready yet?”
.If you have any questions, then please post a reply! I look forward to your comments, suggestions and hopefully invaluable help with testing.
Thanks in advance for your support on this project.
0
Comments
I already have a couple of Beta testers, but there is still room for a few more. So if there's anyone else who would like to give this software a go, then now is the time to drop me a PM..
If you have any questions about what is involved, then please reply to this thread.....
Some lost recordings when you upgrade a drive?? Is this the only reason for your 'experiment', or am i missing something here?
Why would ANYONE want to clone a hard drive, escpecially as it has to be the same size.
The only reason to upgrade a drive is for more space or if your drive is broken, and this doesn't help either option.
Yeah - especially when you can use one of the already available disk clone tools ... like Norton Ghost etc. ... :rolleyes:
And remember not everyone has a copy of Ghost, or wants to download one.... Nor has anyone exactly documented which options to use as of yet for a successful copy.
Plus I can say for certainty no standard HDD clone tool will EVER re-size a Sky+ drive and keep even a single ONE of your recordings.
Losing one or two recordings when upgrading is better than the current situation when you will lose EVERYTHING. Usually it's only a couple of recordings - the ones at the start of the drive.
My software now shows you graphically which recordings you will lose when you re-size a partition.
BTW: This isn't the fault of my software, it's down to the encryption which means that all video content must stay at the same disk address when copying, and can not be moved.
You can't clone a broken disk, and no-one would upgrade a working disc to another of the same size.
What is the point of this?
And what if, when Sky+ starts playing-up and seems to require a FSR and you would lose everything, copying all your recordings (or some utility to check the disk) could get them back for you? This is perhaps a first step towards that.
And I think you have missed my statement that you can now RESIZE THE PARTITION DURING THE COPY. So no more same size disk limitation - Okay, possibly at the expense of a few recordings - But nothing you wouldn't have lost completely without my utility. So when you upgrade you can now get to get to keep the majority of your recordings. I can't see how that's a bad thing?
IMHO, while it's certainly not perfect, it's got to be 100% better than what we had before - surely?
I think you're doing a great job.
Don't listen to these doom-mongers.
You carry on and with a few of your beta testers, I'm sure we'll have a piece of VERY USEFUL Software.
Unless you've got a high quality DVD recorder, it is quite possible for most of us with a SKY+160, for there never to be a time when the drive is empty.
Also, one day we might have an interface cable coming out of the SkyBox into a kind of Disc juggler above, with removable trays - now there's a thought. Quick disc swap !!
Incidentally, is there a capacity limit on the SKY+160 boxes - ie could they take a 400GB drive ??
Terry Toye
(Electronics & EMC Engineer)
I think it's a worthwhile pursuit. I put off upgrading from 40GB to a 160GB for ages because there was always something we hadn't watched still on the 40GB.
In the end I used removable hard disk caddy connected with a longer IDE cable and power connector. The caddy could sit outside the sky+ box and we swapped the disks around to watch stuff on the 40 and only record on the 160.
Did this for two or three days and then fitted the 160 inside permanently.
I don't know if a smart unit that could allow hard disk swapping for sky+ would be much of a benefit for most users in the longer term though ...
The 300GB drive I have still will not work in my V1 box, even with the new software. However this is a limitation of the boxes Full System Reset in partitioning/formatting the drive. If I use my copy software to copy on the contents from a 250GB (or any other size drive for that matter) and expand the partition up to 300GB in the process, it seems to work perfectly. Yet another use for it then....
The only other limit I know about is the planner file is restricted to 1000 entries (whatever size disk you have). I expect there is some hard limits somewhere else too, but I don't know what they are.
Thanks for the encouragement. I know if this type of utility had been around when I upgraded, I would have used it...
At least now you won't have to watch or DVD/VHS everything on your old drive before upgrading - Just the things that can't be copied.
Just a suggestion to try to make the process simpler ;]
Cheers,
Zebs
You can always use an external USB caddy: £15-30
Why exectly does 3 IDE drives scare you?
Of course there's nothing to stop you creating your own Bootable XP CD and then putting my utility on it.
Any clues anyone?
I cant see how 2 ide drives is less scary than 3 ide drives. If you boot off a boot disk and only want 2 ide drives (a source sky+ and destination sky+) then surely the PC you are booting from would need to have its main ide boot disk disconnected which is surely more of a hassle than just having 3 ide drives connected
@pcbbc
Are the recordings that are lost during the copying to a larger disk randomly placed on the sky+ planner ?
i.e. What I am getting at is ... Is it the oldest recordings on the disk, the ones at the top/start of the planner or does it depend on where the sky+ software has written the recording onto the disk itself.
I just meant its simpler having less drives connected - and therefore less things to go wrong.
This assumes you have a floppy drive in your PC of course!
I was thinking if you wanted to allow non-techy users to use your software then .... ok I'll stop there, you're going to have to be extremely techy to use this anyhow!
Cheers,
Zebs
If you have never deleted anything from your drive, then yes, it would be the first entry/entries in the planner that you would lose (the oldest stuff got recorded first on the disk).
However when you delete something, Sky+ will reuse that space for your next recording. So, if that was the first recording on the disk, then the next thing you record would replace it, and then that would become the one you would lose!
Additionally if you dual record, each recording gets alternate clusters - So then you might lose both programmes
My best advice for upgraders would be:
1. Avoid deleting anything for a while if you can.
2. Put your Sky+ drive in the PC and see which recordings you will lose with the utility (It will show you graphically before you copy).
3. If it is unacceptable to lose these, return to Sky+
4. Watch the "uncopyable" recordings or copy to DVD. It is most important not to delete them, as any space you free will just get used by future planned recordings!
5. When you are done, back to the PC and perform the actual copy to the new drive.
I still think that the most useful utility would be a 'clean-up' program that eliminates the need to run the buggy 'planner rebuild' and allows us to remove our junk and defrag the remainder!
My first version of the software actually did do a defrag of the video when copying, and when I tested it (on same size drives) it worked like a dream - As long as the source disk didn't have any fragmentation! As soon as there were fragments the order of video data sectors changed and it didn't work. I spent ages looking at my defrag code trying to work out what was wrong. In the end there wasn't anything wrong and I discovered the LBA address encryption "feature".
I agree a disk fix (i.e. Check Disk) utility would be useful. I need to learn a little more about the disk layout first though, and what is stored in the planner file. Once we have copying disks off pat, maybe that should be next. No promises though...
Pretty impressed even without the installer, I wish the developers at our place were as good at putting documentation together.
Now the bad news, I opened up my Sky+ box and took out the Quantum Fireball LCT20 40GB disk and connected it up to my pc with the new drive. Turned on the PC and a nasty burning smell! :eek:
It turns out that the controller on the Fireball has fried, you can actually see the burn mark on one of the chips! My pc and my new disk are both fine and my new disk works in my Sky+ box but obviously I haven't been able to actual test your software or get my recording off my old disk.
If anyone has an old disk from their Sky+ v1 box that is the same model and wouldn't mind donating it to me (or selling it for a small fee) then I can easily swap the disk controller and should be able to still test you app. Apparently this is a common problem with Fireballs, they seem to be very sensitive to power fluctuations. It'll also gain me a few brownie points with the missus since I'll be able to recover her lost programmes.
Oh well, at least I have a Sky+ 160 now
Never heard of anything like that happening with a controller, oh well.
There seems to be one on e-bay now. HTH.