that's output from the gfx card.. i was talking about the input from Sky \ NTL \ telewest into the TC card you are using.. i've already got cable so MCE with a free view card and paying for that is no good to me
I have so far come to the conclusion that the probelm with using a windows based computer is that is doesn't have the stability required for a consumer electronics device nor does it have the simple (SCART) conections to make it into a plug and play device.
For example one of my version 1 TiVos ran for a year without rebooting or having any problems - at the end of that time it only rebooted after a long power outage.
Of course maybe some manufacturer will create a computer with the right inputs and outputs to make connecting it to your home theatre easy - though I have to admit when I have conencted my widescreen PC to a 50" plasma the picture quality has not been as good as feeding the screen with a RGB image from a regular DVD player.
Well I worked in the US for 4 years, and I had a Series 2 TiVO. The features and functions above and beyond a series one unit make the system very very much more flexible - heck just being able to put programs into folders makes it 20 times more easy to use!
I had the home media option too, streaming MPS3, and photos to my TV was a great addition!
However I'm back in the UK now, and I've waded through ALL the possibilities, freeview, sky, integrated PVR's and SKY+...
I've ended up with a Thompson Series 1 TiVO, with 600GB of Harddrive space - I have set up a nearly uncompressed recording mode on the system (DVD quality) and am extremely happy with the system.
This is hooked up on my home network (so I can get the programs off the HD and stream them from my server to other PC's) - this is controlling a PACE SKY box and whilst not a perfect solution, it certainly a million miles away from the clumsy and clunky SKY + or freeview EPG and PVR solutions.
Of course maybe some manufacturer will create a computer with the right inputs and outputs to make connecting it to your home theatre easy - though I have to admit when I have conencted my widescreen PC to a 50" plasma the picture quality has not been as good as feeding the screen with a RGB image from a regular DVD player.
HDMI/DVI are the end of SCART, and the start of easy PC connectivity.
HDMI/DVI are the end of SCART, and the start of easy PC connectivity.
They are but we are still a few years away from the time that HDMI (as it includes audio so is more comparable to SCART) are universally available. Today a HDMI input into a PC would not be overly useful for the above purposes as there are no Sky boxes with this type of output.
They are but we are still a few years away from the time that HDMI (as it includes audio so is more comparable to SCART) are universally available. Today a HDMI input into a PC would not be overly useful for the above purposes as there are no Sky boxes with this type of output.
Wait untill the autumn when Sky release HD, I think you will find that the only way of getting HD will be through HDMI
Wait untill the autumn when Sky release HD, I think you will find that the only way of getting HD will be through HDMI
From Sky's early statements on the matter I thought they were going HDMI only but if I undestand Sky's latest position correctly then their new stb's will have both HDMI and component output.
On Sky's own channels HD will be output on both, but broadcasters will have the option of restricting HD to HDMI only.
I suspect we will need to wait for launch before we know for sure what is happening, and even then I suppose Sky always has the option of going HDMI only whenever they wish.
We know for sure. The new box will have component out and it will be enabled for HD output on all Sky's HD channels. This has been officially stated time after time. I have personally been told it byt Sky's HD product manager, as has AlanJ.
Wait until the autumn when Sky release HD, I think you will find that the only way of getting HD will be through HDMI
But that was not the discussion was about. HDMI as a method of carriage is still in its infancy We were talking about why a PC manufacturer has not created the equivalent of a SCART input / Scart Output board with appropriate encoding and decoding software to take RGB input and output RGB for European TVs (and there we probably have the answer it is a non-US phenomenon).
As others have said Sky have confirmed and I have personally spoken to the head of Sky's HD marketing and he stated that the first generation HD box will have analogue HD component outputs and ALL Sky's programming would be available in HD on the analogue HD outputs (he can not control non Sky channels). This will include all of their sport and movie channels that are available in HD.
I was recently reading the manual for a US DVD Recorder and realised why HDMI has so much potential in the US there is no simple single cable solution for hooking up TVs / Monitors to Home Theatre componets (DVD / VCR / Satellite box / TiVo etc).
Now to be a useful input it must become the defacto input standard for displays once it does then hopefully the output will follow. The problems I have with it are that I suspect (but don't know) that HDMI (which might be viewed as DVI with sound - it isn't but it is a good simplistic aproach) is a single wire digital connection.
This is fine for flat pannel based devices that are digital but will it work as well with CRT based technology or will you need more electronics in the CRT box to make it work adding to the cost?
Equally we have now started to see HDMI apear on very high end DVD players that include upscaling technology to mathc the output device but it will be some time before HDMI spreads down to cheaper DVD / DVR / PVR type devices.
It will happen but it will take time.
ALan
PS TiVo is a hard disk based Personal Video Recorder with intergrated EPG and sopisticated programming technology see www.tivo.com for more details.
That really is the key to a good EPG it is not the base data it is the ability to follow shows over their entire season and to be able to tell the difference between new shows and repeats.
TiVo's greatness is not just the software it is the combination of clever software with an EPG that provides extensive programme and episode information to allow all this to happen.
One selection allows the recording of a whole series. Is that worht the money - probably.
This post really does hit the nail on the head.
In order for a PVR to be genuinely useful it needs to have a sophisticated series-recording option, namely:
1) It needs to be able to record each episode of a series
2) It needs to be capable of distinguishing between new shows and repeats
3) If there are other series-recording requests queued, it should if possible have the intelligence to allow recording of both programmes if repeats of the same episode are available, so all programmed get recorded
4) Most importantly, it needs to be able to remember these programmes so you catch the first episode of a new series without having to remember that a new series is coming.
If a system does not have all these, then it's little better than a system that demands you record each programme manually.
*Only* TiVo has all of these. Sky+ has the first two, but frequently "forgets" a series because the programme isn't in the schedules for a week or two, ot it clashes with something else, or simply because the programme provider decides to change the parameters such that Sky+ doesn't recognise the next episode. Result -- entire series lost potentially.
I have both Sky+ and TiVo, and the only reason I keep Sky+ on is because it is effectively free. TiVo on the other hand would present a major problem to my viewing habits now if it disappeared.
I guess I've never lived (never seen a Tivo) but is manually setting timers to record a TV series really THAT difficult that it needs £200 worth of technology to do it for you?
I love the season pass in Tivo. The few times its remembered that a new series is starting that I hadn't remembered is worth its weight in gold.
Also the way you can keep just the latest recording is great for childrens programs. I can record lots of programs off CBeebies or NickJr, but they only take a limited amount of space on the HDD and screen. Dont' think SKy+ can do that.
Although when Sky HD launches, I'll probably have that (I guess Sky+HD is default), and have the Tivo on the spare Sky box.
I guess I've never lived (never seen a Tivo) but is manually setting timers to record a TV series really THAT difficult that it needs £200 worth of technology to do it for you?
Cliff
But with what you say being the case, why have a Sky+ either?
Having a system that claims to be able to record every episode of a series, but lacks the functionality to do the job properly I find is actually worse than having a dumb VCR that needs manual programming because when the machine does things for you you don't expect it to forget half-way through the series.
I guess I've never lived (never seen a Tivo) but is manually setting timers to record a TV series really THAT difficult that it needs £200 worth of technology to do it for you?
Cliff
For some people very hard
More seriously a product like TiVo deals with the changes that frequently happen when programmes get moved from their regular slot. OK if you time shift them by a day but not so useful if you don't watch one eposode until after the next one has broadcast only to find that your recording is useless and yiu have an hour of (football / darts / dancing etc) becuase the programme you want to watch has been shifted in the schedules.
TiVo isn't clever enough to deal with real time changes to the programmes but even though Sky+ can be a bit dodgey and is dependent on the broadcaster doing the right thing with their EPG data.
I guess I've never lived (never seen a Tivo) but is manually setting timers to record a TV series really THAT difficult that it needs £200 worth of technology to do it for you?
Cliff
Difficult, no. Time consuming and tedious, yes. ALL my TV watching is timeshifted. If I were to set that lot up manually it would take hours a week. I value my time far higher than the cost of a TiVo.
sanderton, out of interest I see you have MS Media Center there. Is this system's EPG system comparable to TiVo's? It's the one system I've never really looked into, but it should be very sophisticated.
I guess I've never lived (never seen a Tivo) but is manually setting timers to record a TV series really THAT difficult that it needs £200 worth of technology to do it for you?
Cliff
It's a bit like explaining why a PVR is better than a VCR. Both just record TV programs - is changing a video tape really that much of a hassle?
Comments
For example one of my version 1 TiVos ran for a year without rebooting or having any problems - at the end of that time it only rebooted after a long power outage.
Of course maybe some manufacturer will create a computer with the right inputs and outputs to make connecting it to your home theatre easy - though I have to admit when I have conencted my widescreen PC to a 50" plasma the picture quality has not been as good as feeding the screen with a RGB image from a regular DVD player.
Well I worked in the US for 4 years, and I had a Series 2 TiVO. The features and functions above and beyond a series one unit make the system very very much more flexible - heck just being able to put programs into folders makes it 20 times more easy to use!
I had the home media option too, streaming MPS3, and photos to my TV was a great addition!
However I'm back in the UK now, and I've waded through ALL the possibilities, freeview, sky, integrated PVR's and SKY+...
I've ended up with a Thompson Series 1 TiVO, with 600GB of Harddrive space - I have set up a nearly uncompressed recording mode on the system (DVD quality) and am extremely happy with the system.
This is hooked up on my home network (so I can get the programs off the HD and stream them from my server to other PC's) - this is controlling a PACE SKY box and whilst not a perfect solution, it certainly a million miles away from the clumsy and clunky SKY + or freeview EPG and PVR solutions.
sTeVE
HDMI/DVI are the end of SCART, and the start of easy PC connectivity.
Wait untill the autumn when Sky release HD, I think you will find that the only way of getting HD will be through HDMI
From Sky's early statements on the matter I thought they were going HDMI only but if I undestand Sky's latest position correctly then their new stb's will have both HDMI and component output.
On Sky's own channels HD will be output on both, but broadcasters will have the option of restricting HD to HDMI only.
I suspect we will need to wait for launch before we know for sure what is happening, and even then I suppose Sky always has the option of going HDMI only whenever they wish.
But that was not the discussion was about. HDMI as a method of carriage is still in its infancy We were talking about why a PC manufacturer has not created the equivalent of a SCART input / Scart Output board with appropriate encoding and decoding software to take RGB input and output RGB for European TVs (and there we probably have the answer it is a non-US phenomenon).
As others have said Sky have confirmed and I have personally spoken to the head of Sky's HD marketing and he stated that the first generation HD box will have analogue HD component outputs and ALL Sky's programming would be available in HD on the analogue HD outputs (he can not control non Sky channels). This will include all of their sport and movie channels that are available in HD.
Now to be a useful input it must become the defacto input standard for displays once it does then hopefully the output will follow. The problems I have with it are that I suspect (but don't know) that HDMI (which might be viewed as DVI with sound - it isn't but it is a good simplistic aproach) is a single wire digital connection.
This is fine for flat pannel based devices that are digital but will it work as well with CRT based technology or will you need more electronics in the CRT box to make it work adding to the cost?
Equally we have now started to see HDMI apear on very high end DVD players that include upscaling technology to mathc the output device but it will be some time before HDMI spreads down to cheaper DVD / DVR / PVR type devices.
It will happen but it will take time.
ALan
PS TiVo is a hard disk based Personal Video Recorder with intergrated EPG and sopisticated programming technology see www.tivo.com for more details.
This post really does hit the nail on the head.
In order for a PVR to be genuinely useful it needs to have a sophisticated series-recording option, namely:
1) It needs to be able to record each episode of a series
2) It needs to be capable of distinguishing between new shows and repeats
3) If there are other series-recording requests queued, it should if possible have the intelligence to allow recording of both programmes if repeats of the same episode are available, so all programmed get recorded
4) Most importantly, it needs to be able to remember these programmes so you catch the first episode of a new series without having to remember that a new series is coming.
If a system does not have all these, then it's little better than a system that demands you record each programme manually.
*Only* TiVo has all of these. Sky+ has the first two, but frequently "forgets" a series because the programme isn't in the schedules for a week or two, ot it clashes with something else, or simply because the programme provider decides to change the parameters such that Sky+ doesn't recognise the next episode. Result -- entire series lost potentially.
I have both Sky+ and TiVo, and the only reason I keep Sky+ on is because it is effectively free. TiVo on the other hand would present a major problem to my viewing habits now if it disappeared.
Cliff
Also the way you can keep just the latest recording is great for childrens programs. I can record lots of programs off CBeebies or NickJr, but they only take a limited amount of space on the HDD and screen. Dont' think SKy+ can do that.
Although when Sky HD launches, I'll probably have that (I guess Sky+HD is default), and have the Tivo on the spare Sky box.
But with what you say being the case, why have a Sky+ either?
Having a system that claims to be able to record every episode of a series, but lacks the functionality to do the job properly I find is actually worse than having a dumb VCR that needs manual programming because when the machine does things for you you don't expect it to forget half-way through the series.
For some people very hard
More seriously a product like TiVo deals with the changes that frequently happen when programmes get moved from their regular slot. OK if you time shift them by a day but not so useful if you don't watch one eposode until after the next one has broadcast only to find that your recording is useless and yiu have an hour of (football / darts / dancing etc) becuase the programme you want to watch has been shifted in the schedules.
TiVo isn't clever enough to deal with real time changes to the programmes but even though Sky+ can be a bit dodgey and is dependent on the broadcaster doing the right thing with their EPG data.
Difficult, no. Time consuming and tedious, yes. ALL my TV watching is timeshifted. If I were to set that lot up manually it would take hours a week. I value my time far higher than the cost of a TiVo.
It's a bit like explaining why a PVR is better than a VCR. Both just record TV programs - is changing a video tape really that much of a hassle?
Actually it is a much harder thing to do